All photos courtesy of Anwar White.
Anwar White knows what you’re packing, and soon the rest of the world is going to know it too. That is, if he has anything to say about it. The self-proclaimed “fairy godbrother” and dating coach extraordinaire has been in the matchmaking game for over 16 years and has the wedding invitations to prove he knows exactly what he’s doing.
Recently, White went viral on TikTok for breaking down the concept of “catching print,” a meticulous rating system that teaches people how to accurately estimate how big (or small) a man’s penis is without ever unzipping his pants. The video, which has amassed a whopping 2.5 million likes, has naturally caused some discourse between member measuring enthusiasts and men’s rights activists alike. In the midst of the success of this new phenomenon he coined, I hopped on a call with White to talk race, Raya, and how he taught the girls, gays, and theys to interrogate what’s hiding underneath those boxers.
ANWAR WHITE: What’s going on, lady?
ARY RUSSELL: You don’t understand how excited I am to talk to you.
WHITE: Why, girl? [Laughs]
RUSSELL: Have you seen this dating scene? I want to start from the beginning. How did you get into becoming a dating coach? You’ve been doing this for 16 years.
WHITE: I’ve always been helping girls talk to boys. Even on the elementary school playground, I would be double-dutching with the girls and then be hooping it up with the boys and, between those two events, I’d be helping Sally get with John and Jim get with Tamika.
RUSSELL: Young Cupid.
WHITE: It wasn’t until I graduated from getting my MBA at Columbia and I was looking at all of my girlfriends who had amazing jobs, great cars, homes, social lives, traveled a lot, but their love lives were horrendous. Me, being the type-A person that I am, I’m like, “I’m going to take over your dating life and we’re going to just get this done.” And within a couple of months, they were getting into relationships and, within a couple of years, they were getting married.
RUSSELL: What did that look like?
WHITE: It looked like me doing their profiles, telling them what to say next, telling them, “Okay, this is the kind of date that you want, these are the questions you should ask.”
RUSSELL: I’m assuming you’re helping majority heterosexual couples get together.
WHITE: Yes, most definitely.
RUSSELL: How did you notice those differences between gay and straight and know how to navigate relationships like that?
WHITE: Being gay has been a really amazing blessing for me in that I almost play double agent. My experience in this world as a male but having very feminine mannerisms has also helped me understand those two perspectives. Number two, it’s through hyper vigilant observation and pattern recognition. Most of the women in my family were going between relationships, so I had a front row seat in terms of what it looked like.
RUSSELL: You saw what worked and what didn’t work.
WHITE: I’m a statistician, that was what I majored in in undergrad. So, not only am I looking at qualitative data based on the thousands of women that I work with all day, every day, but also the books that I read.
RUSSELL: A lot of the information in those books can be outdated. What’s dating advice that has worked before that doesn’t work anymore?
WHITE: Some of these books have come out before cell phones and dating apps, and that changes the way in which we have to evaluate the courtship process. It’s not enough for you to just go on really great dates, that’s very Carrie and Mr. Big. Now, we have to take into consideration how does he text you in between? I call that “between date behavior,” which we actually weigh more heavily than the actual dates. Number two, dating apps. When they first came out, there was a lot of stigma around them. Now, roughly 60% of relationships are starting from dating apps. So this, “Oh, all you have to do is go to a bar and you’re going to find a person” isn’t necessarily as realistic anymore.
RUSSELL: I have a very complicated relationship with dating apps. I just deleted Hinge for the thousandth time, but then I also just got accepted on to Raya so I’m like, “Wait, let me try this again.” [Laughs]
WHITE: Okay, let me just tell you, as a Black woman on Raya, you’re not going to get much of anything.
RUSSELL: I appreciate the honesty. I need the tough love.
WHITE: I don’t recommend it and none of my clients in the last 16 years have really gotten anything from Raya. So, flirt and banter, but have no expectations with Raya.
RUSSELL: Yeah, it was more that I wanted to see what celebrities are on there because I’m nosy.
WHITE: Okay, I like that too. [Laughs]
RUSSELL: Specifically with dating apps, you have to be very strategic about the prompts that you choose, the way that you answer them, and the pictures that you put on there. What are the tiny things that people put on dating apps that they wouldn’t realize are making really big differences in how they’re getting approached?
WHITE: You should definitely have a black-and-white picture and that picture is probably going to get 107% more likes. It’s going to differentiate them from this sea of color pictures. Obviously, you want your pictures to represent who you are, but you also want your pictures to represent your lifestyle. Sometimes, what a lot of people do who are especially highly accomplished is that they’ll put pictures of them at conferences, but it doesn’t necessarily represent their entire life. When people are on the apps, they want to see if they can actually fit into this person’s life.
RUSSELL: Are there differences in dating that you notice between Gen Z women and Gen X or millennials?
WHITE: Oh, huge differences. The research says that most men won’t be really ready to settle down until around 32. If they’re less educated, the age is around 26. So, that’s why I work with women that are 25 and older. For my younger ladies, establish your career, let dating be fun, but I wouldn’t take it so seriously. That’s especially true for women of color because, in my experience and what the research says is, they’re dating and they’re getting married older. A white girl’s timeline of marriage is 25 to 35, but for many Black women that’s closer to 35 to 45.
RUSSELL: So, you’re saying that there’s also a very significant racial and ethnic difference.
WHITE: Huge. It’s one of the reasons why I specialize in Black women and women of color because it’s a different experience with different challenges.
RUSSELL: I’m sure you’ve seen a lot of people talking about how, in this political climate, women are going further left and men are going further right and it’s essentially leading them to be virtually incompatible on those really fundamental issues. How are you guiding these women in standing their ground on their political beliefs and not making concessions while it’s getting really fucking hard to find someone who aligns with you on those really deep personal values?
WHITE: Well, I have clients who have gotten married with individuals that are on different sides of the political aisle, so it’s not impossible. Make sure, especially on the apps, you understand what their political affiliation is. If they’re saying conservative, it often means MAGA. If they’re saying moderate, often it means conservative. The days are gone where you don’t talk about politics on the first date.
RUSSELL: First question.
WHITE: And it doesn’t have to be a direct question like, “Who did you vote for?” But you can talk about current events. “Oh my gosh, this war in Iran is very intense. What are your thoughts on it? I saw President Trump say this, what do you think about that?” Now we’re having a general discussion about events and it doesn’t necessarily feel like I’m being interrogated.
RUSSELL: Okay, I want to talk to you about “catching print.” The diagram that you created was very calculated. How did you construct this?
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WHITE: I actually trademarked it, but this is something that’s actually quite popular in the queer scene. I just put more frameworks around it to help people understand it. Based on personal experience engaging with men, I was able to determine, “What does all of this actually look like?” Now I’ve shared it on TikTok because my whole platform is about empowering women with information so that they can make the most informed decisions about their dating life.
RUSSELL: What’s been the response that you’ve gotten from both women and men respectively?
WHITE: I’ve gotten a variety of different responses. I’ve gotten, “Now I feel vindicated and empowered and now I can make men feel the way that I’ve always felt.” But also, “Hey, this is what men do so it’s not any different or better.” I’ve also gotten some more nuanced perspectives such as, “This might affect Black men a little bit differently since they’ve been objectified about their members,” and “This is going to affect the trans men community differently now that people are looking at that area.” Obviously, when I came out with this video, my intention was not to be hurtful. What people do with that information, whether it’s toxic or not, is their prerogative. But I’m here to give the manual at the end of the day.
RUSSELL: I think I saw some of the guys being like, “Well, I’m a grower not a shower, this isn’t accurate.”
WHITE: Yes, I’ve heard that from men as well which my framework actually takes into consideration because men are not growing more than two inches. Men have a warped sense of what their size actually is. If you talk to a man, they’re probably going to tell you that they’re seven inches but the average size is 5.5”.
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RUSSELL: Clear overestimation.
WHITE: So these men that are saying, “Oh my god, I double in length.” It’s so very rare. I don’t even engage with the growers versus showers. A lot of that I believe is, “I feel uncomfortable about you rating me and I want you to give me more of a chance”.
RUSSELL: People were comparing it to cup sizes and, with women, we don’t have the luxury of it being as hidden. For centuries people could objectify us in that way. Now, with men, it’s one of those things where you didn’t get to see what they had until we got to that point in the bedroom and, by that point, you’re already there. I want to know your thoughts on this correlation between size and your masculinity.
WHITE: Well, that’s why I’ve heard such pushback from men around this because there’s a lot of posturing going on in terms of masculinity. Men and women equate penis size with masculinity, alpha-ness, and leadership in a lot of different ways. It’s hitting men in that way because now you don’t get to tell me your level of masculinity. I get to know what it is without your opinion. That’s very powerful as a woman.
RUSSELL: Are there connections surrounding this conversation around the male loneliness epidemic?
WHITE: I don’t subscribe to that.
RUSSELL: You don’t?
WHITE: No, not at all. Everyone is lonely. A lot of people have been using that as an excuse for us to coddle men. As someone who experiences men through the hundreds of clients that I work with every day, they don’t need coddling, they need to level up. They need to step away from the socialization that they grow up with and start increasing some of their emotional skills, communication skills in this modern day.
RUSSELL: I also wanted to know what your thoughts on this incel and looksmaxxing movement, and then how it merges with dating culture. Has there been any overlap that you’ve noticed?
WHITE: 100% So, just to step back, when divorce started to happen in the ’90s and in the early 2000s, you had a lot of single mothers raising boys. That’s especially true for households of color. So, you have a different mentality with men that are in their 20s, 30s, even 40s now. “I get to show up differently.” A lot of mothers will coddle them, where sons get away with murder and daughters can’t do anything.
RUSSELL: They have to be saints.
WHITE: What you have here is an entitlement and also a centeredness that happens with men that have started to drive looksmaxxing. It’s about being the center of attention whether you’re in a relationship with women or you are in a relationship with your homeboys, especially in today’s age where attention is a commodity that gets to be shared. Let’s be honest with ourselves, the way that you look matters. You can get more money if you’re taller, if you are conventionally more attractive, if you have more muscles as a man. You get more respect from everyone if you look a certain kind of way. That’s why a lot of these people are doing it, right?
RUSSELL: Yeah.
WHITE: A lot of men aren’t doing well and are not keeping up. Because of that, you’re starting to get this shift that’s happening. So, what you’re seeing is the looksmaxxing is helping in the pecking order of how they want to be chosen in the market.
